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add 2 week 2 hour expiry rule to nickname policy
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@jesopo
jesopo committed Jun 17, 2021
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Expand Up @@ -97,12 +97,14 @@ additional names to your account, but please remember that these are not
collectibles and should not be hoarded or squatted.

Nickname and account registrations expire ten weeks after they are last used.
For grouped nicknames, "used" means that you were using the nickname while
logged in to the account which owns it. For accounts, "used" means that you
logged in to the account, regardless of the nickname you used to do so.
Nicknames which are the primary account name expire only when the entire
account is expired. If you know or plan to be absent for longer, please
contact network staff in advance for potential options.
Nicknames belonging to accounts that are older than two weeks but were last
used within two hours of registration are also considered to be expired. For

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@ekohl

ekohl Jun 22, 2021

Did you intend "only used" here? As in, only within the two hours after the registration and not after that.

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@pastly

pastly Jun 22, 2021

last used and only used mean the same thing here.

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@ryanakca

ryanakca Jun 22, 2021

The sentence "Nicknames belonging to accounts that are older than two weeks but were last
used within two hours of registration are also considered to be expired." is hard to parse because

  1. the subject "nicknames" is separated from the verb/object "are also considered to be expired" by lots of text
  2. it's not clear what the subject of "were last used" is.

Based on my understanding of #libera, the following would be clearer: Nicknames are also considered to be expired if they belong to accounts that are both older than two weeks and last used within two hours of registration.

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@Arnavion

Arnavion Jun 22, 2021

I suggest this so as to have shorter clauses to parse:

If a nickname or an account has not been used for ten weeks, the nickname or account is considered to be expired.

If an account is more than two weeks old, and a nickname belonging to the account hasn't been used since two hours after the account was registered, the nickname is considered to be expired.

But keeping the current wording with just s/last used/only used/ would work too.

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@RealKindOne

RealKindOne Jun 22, 2021

I think the original wording from the old site back in 2015 is easier to understand.

Nicks which are at least two weeks old and which were last used less than two hours after their creation are also considered to be expired.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150803030009/http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#userexpirations
grouped nicknames, "used" means that you were using the nickname while logged
in to the account which owns it. For accounts, "used" means that you logged
in to the account, regardless of the nickname you used to do so. Nicknames
which are the primary account name expire only when the entire account is
expired. If you know or plan to be absent for longer, please contact network
staff in advance for potential options.

In some cases, such as for very old accounts, we may, at our discretion,
extend the expiry time of a nickname or account, usually not beyond 15 weeks
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17 comments on commit cf52115

@MelchiorGaspar
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So what does that mean?
do I have to stay logged in all the time or at least once a week or so?
because I don't usually stay logged in all the time..

@grantwwu
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So what does that mean?
do I have to stay logged in all the time or at least once a week or so?
because I don't usually stay logged in all the time..

My interpretation is that this rule change only impacts accounts where the only usage was within 2 hours of registration.

@FeepingCreature
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@FeepingCreature FeepingCreature commented on cf52115 Jun 22, 2021 •
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No, if you used your nick more than two hours after you registered it, you're fine. This is (I'm guessing) about cleaning up all the Freenode nicknames people snatched up early in the network's lifetime and then sat on.

@THolding
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So what does that mean?
do I have to stay logged in all the time or at least once a week or so?
because I don't usually stay logged in all the time..

You need to log in once every 10 weeks. Unless your account is less than two weeks old, then you have to log in at least once 2 hours after registration, and then once every 10 weeks. I think.

@pastly
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@pastly pastly commented on cf52115 Jun 22, 2021 •
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So what does that mean?
do I have to stay logged in all the time or at least once a week or so?
because I don't usually stay logged in all the time..

No.

Don't create an account and then never use it. That's what it means.

You don't have to stay logged in all the time.

@SadieCat
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It's just a policy change to stop people from hoarding nicknames and then never actually using them.

@emanuelserpa
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@emanuelserpa emanuelserpa commented on cf52115 Jun 22, 2021 •
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Was this 10 week rule present on the former Freenode network? I remember that I got almost a year without logging on freenode and my account worked fine.

@relrod
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@relrod relrod commented on cf52115 Jun 22, 2021

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this 10 week rule was present on the former Freenode network? I remember that I got almost a year without logging on freenode and my account worked fine.

yes, but someone could have asked for it to be dropped during that time. It doesn't get dropped automatically, but it's considered expired and could be dropped if someone wanted it, since you hadn't logged in and reset the timer.

@Mikaela
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Are you enabling automatic nickname expiration?

@swantzter
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@swantzter swantzter commented on cf52115 Jun 22, 2021 •
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@Mikaela no, as with the 10 week rule someone actually have to ask for the nickname for it to be dropped

@mquin
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@mquin mquin commented on cf52115 Jun 22, 2021

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@Mikaela No.

@edk0
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@edk0 edk0 commented on cf52115 Jun 22, 2021

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To clarify for everyone here I'm going to reiterate what I've been saying in #libera: If you have ever been logged into your account while it was more than two hours old, your account and nicks are not affected by this change, and never will be.

@justinlynn
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To clarify for everyone here I'm going to reiterate what I've been saying in #libera: If you have ever been logged into your account while it was more than two hours old, your account and nicks are not affected by this change, and never will be.

That's great to hear. I suppose it's the section on grouped nicks that's a little unclear for me. Does this apply to those as well? While I use my account regularly, I have a few grouped nicks that identify me on other platforms (or are often used as aliases like {nick}_ and {nick}__) that I keep reserved to avoid people impersonating me. However, I rarely use them directly as a primary identity on Libera.Chat. Will I need to cycle through these grouped nicks on a regular basis to ensure they don't become eligible for expiration?

@winks
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@winks winks commented on cf52115 Jun 23, 2021 •
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That's great to hear. I suppose it's the section on grouped nicks that's a little unclear for me. Does this apply to those as well? While I use my account regularly, I have a few grouped nicks that identify me on other platforms (or are often used as aliases like {nick}_ and {nick}__) that I keep reserved to avoid people impersonating me. However, I rarely use them directly as a primary identity on Libera.Chat. Will I need to cycle through these grouped nicks on a regular basis to ensure they don't become eligible for expiration?

Same for me here, less the impersonating part, but the only nick I had (before the move) and have (now) registered is {nick}_ which is also configured in all my clients as my alternative nick. In a perfect world auth on reconnect would always work, but the years have shown that this works well enough if you still have a ghost {nick} lingering.

Is this simply a real edge case or do we simply need to use our alt nick for a bit now? Because of course it was registered at the start and without sifting through logs I couldn't tell you now if I got disconnected and had used it in the last month.

@winks
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@winks winks commented on cf52115 Jun 23, 2021

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Per https://fosstodon.org/@liberachat/106455700549327417 (thanks kline) I think I misunderstood, but the wording really needs clarification. (so semi-ignore my last post)

@fionnb
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@fionnb fionnb commented on cf52115 Jun 23, 2021 •
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While I am generally positive about a nick expiration policy I am a bit doubtful about the current attempt.
Users that have been logged in regularly for more than six months should - IMHO - get at least 6 months worth of account protection by default.
A mere ten weeks can easily go by when you have an accident or get seriously sick and then your lost account adds up to the pile of other undeserved hassles that usually come along with such a blow of fate.
Please think about that. Just my 2c.

@zyklotomic
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How about also giving the user a grace period, notifying them that they have to login once within the next X amount of days/weeks to reclaim their account if another user requests to have the nick. As in, give the original owner a chance to respond to a nick drop request. This way, users don't suddenly lose their account without warning. If this is already how it works, my bad.

Just my 2c 2.

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