Flat and very flat maps with the setting of the arctic and tropical climate are completely inaccessible to the player, no matter what industrial set he uses and whether he is interested in the industry at all.

We recently made a change to how maps are generated, and this should no longer be the case. As in .. "very flat" is not as flat as the word suggests on Arctic and Tropic. With that change, do you still think we should inform the users? Is it still "too flat"?

(basically, I went for an alternative solution to your suggestion, and just made "very flat" a bit more mountain-like as .. it is arctic and tropic after all ;) )

Would love to get your feedback on the recent changes (should be in the latest nightly).

We recently made a change to how maps are generated, and this should no longer be the case. As in .. "very flat" is not as flat as the word suggests on Arctic and Tropic. With that change, do you still think we should inform the users? Is it still "too flat"?

(basically, I went for an alternative solution to your suggestion, and just made "very flat" a bit more mountain-like as .. it is arctic and tropic after all ;) )

Well ...

No, it's definitely not a very flat map. ;)

I don't change my opinion: It's the wrong way...

There is still a problem with the forests and in addition the map is not compatible with the selected settings.

I have been considering changing the labels for those 2 climates :P I am not sure, that might just be evil, but so if you select Arctic or Tropic, "Very Flat" becomes something like "normal",, "flat" becomes "a bit more hills", etc. And we increase the hilliness even further :P Playing those maps on flat maps like you show is just silly ... but okay, at least there is now always snow, so there is a that :D

The other solution is far more drastic, and revamp the whole "newgame" window. As in, by default show a "basic" window where you select the climate and you get like: "easy", "challenging", "very difficult", or something. And that is it.

Than there is an "advanced" button you can click that allows you to tune all these settings. And even allows you to make a full flat map in arctic; totally pointless from a gameplay perspective, but allowed. That means we don't really have to warn people doing silly stuff, as .. well .. it is "advanced" :D What do you think? (as you notice, I am searching for a solution, not really have a clue what works .. people might dislike this idea very much, but I think the current window is a bit much for new players :D)

There is also a third solution - the first of my suggestions, which is just adding a warning - probably the simplest, causing the least controversy and anger among some players, not restricting anyone and causing the least inaccuracies. ;)

Flat maps are neither pointless nor silly. The fact that you don't like these maps is not a good basis for other players not to use them. Not everyone needs mountains to have fun. Some players just tire of the mountains - building routes is much more time-consuming. This largely applies to novice players for whom this change was supposed to be.

Problem with subarctic climate is, that you will not get the full chain of industries without mountains (at least with original industries). The warning has to be verbose to clarify the economic limitations.

I will say a little more:

1. Tropical climate, does not require any changes in the way the terrain is generated, nor any warnings - no elevations are necessary for the map generator to build any type of enterprise.

2. The problem mainly concerns arctic forests that can only be placed on snow - such forests are included in the default set and UKRS Industries.

3. The problem is not only with the setting of the terrain type - here it is not so much the height of the terrain that matters, but the set snow level, because the forests must always remain in the snow zone. In its present form, I see the importance of four parameters: Terrain type, Map height, Map size (the smaller of the dimensions) and Snowline height. Additions changing the height of the snow line can have an additional impact - here the properly setting of upper snow line limit is important.

4. Additives that alter the height of the snow line, such as OpenGFX + Landscape, can put arctic forests almost anywhere, also on very flat maps. But it can also prevent to creating farms or other enterprises from other industrial sets when the snow line is too low.
   

5. Due to the number of variables, the warning generated by the game should rather only concern the default set of industries with certain settings.

Perhaps a better solution would be to leave only the information after generating the map, but supplement it with tips on what the player can / should do?

Can't reproduce with 20210112-master.

Map generation works as expected in arctic and tropic.

Thanks for contributing.