14 June 2012, 18:00 - 02:00 UTC

Mendicant University is proud to be hosting its fifth global hack day on Thursday, June 14. All are welcome to participate, whether they are MU community members or not. Check out the announcement for more details!

Check out what folks did on the last four hack days: one, two, three, and four.

Please add your name and what you plan to work on during the hack day below. If you don't have a project to work on, list yourself anyway to let folks know you'd be willing to help them with their work.

• Carol Nichols (carols10cents) - rstat.us (Need something to do?? https://github.com/hotsh/rstat.us/issues ;)
• Renato Zannon (riccieri) - Still no project. I'll be able to start on 22:00 UTC
• Jordan Byron (jordanbyron) - Minor mendicantuniversity.org feature work and testing / merging this patch for md_emoji.
• Gregory Brown (sandal) - Project not decided yet, but will start hacking around 21:00 UTC
• Jia Brown (sindhri) - reading discussions about a/b test and multi-armed bandit test. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4040022
• Ricardo Mendes (locks) - the selfml gem needs a code review so I get a reality check. code is at https://github.com/locks/self-ml
• Brent Vatne (notbrent) - discussing javascript and hopefully getting a bit more work done on deck
• Piotr Szotkowski (chastell) – maybe some hacking on art décomp, probably some family hacking on Marta’s well-being after her recent wisdom tooth extraction

2012-06-14 17:22:15 UTC - carols10cents - hacky hack day!

2012-06-14 17:51:16 UTC - andres-fc - ping?

2012-06-14 17:59:51 UTC - seacreature - andres-fc: pong!

2012-06-14 18:02:51 UTC - andres-fc - hop! timezones confuse me - hack day hasn't started, right?

2012-06-14 18:03:03 UTC - seacreature - andres-fc: it's starting right.... now!

2012-06-14 18:03:11 UTC - mendibot_____ - seacreature: Thu Jun 14 18:00 -> Thu Jun 14 14:00

2012-06-14 18:03:11 UTC - seacreature - !time 18:00 UTC to EDT

2012-06-14 18:03:34 UTC - seacreature - who's here for some hack day fun?

2012-06-14 18:05:03 UTC - jordanbyron - Hi everyone!

2012-06-14 18:05:14 UTC - andres-fc - Hallo!

2012-06-14 18:05:19 UTC - seacreature - hi

2012-06-14 18:06:12 UTC - seacreature - I will be back later, jordanbyron can help those who are new to hack day, and others who've done it before, either let us know what you plan to work on, or if you're looking for something to work on, shout that out too

2012-06-14 18:06:37 UTC - seacreature - some folks like to lurk and just help test or review things as people are working on stuff, that's very helpful too!

2012-06-14 18:06:52 UTC - sean_m - I thought it was a 5 hour difference.

2012-06-14 18:07:06 UTC - seacreature - I'll be back in about 2 hrs, take it from here jordanbyron :)

2012-06-14 18:07:22 UTC - locks - ACTION stares at jordanbyron

2012-06-14 18:07:31 UTC - seacreature - sean_m: EDT (daylight time) is UTC-4

2012-06-14 18:07:36 UTC - seacreature - EST is UTC-5

2012-06-14 18:07:49 UTC - seacreature - UTC does not move with daylight savings time

2012-06-14 18:08:38 UTC - jordanbyron - If you haven't already add what you are working on to the wiki page: https://github.com/mendicant/mendicantuniversity.org/wiki/Global-Hack-Day-5

2012-06-14 18:09:32 UTC - locks - carols10cents: are you still working on ALS for rstatus?

2012-06-14 18:10:25 UTC - locks - *ALPS

2012-06-14 18:13:55 UTC - jordanbyron - Don't forget to post updates from time to time, even if you aren't making much progress

2012-06-14 18:16:21 UTC - carols10cents - locks: ALPS, yes

2012-06-14 18:16:24 UTC - jordanbyron - Hi ericgj! Welcome to the party :)

2012-06-14 18:17:18 UTC - carols10cents - i'm still at my day job for a few more hours so i'm not hacking just yet but i'm here :D

2012-06-14 18:17:56 UTC - carols10cents - there are some issues on https://github.com/hotsh/rstat.us that i've tagged with "Pick me!!!" if anyone's looking for something to do, hint hint!

2012-06-14 18:18:13 UTC - seacreature - for those wondering what ALPS is: http://amundsen.com/hypermedia/profiles/

2012-06-14 18:18:25 UTC - carols10cents - they're fairly well defined tasks

2012-06-14 18:19:00 UTC - ericgj - hello all, mostly lurking...

2012-06-14 18:19:12 UTC - carols10cents - locks: what do you think about hypermedia/ALPS?

2012-06-14 18:19:48 UTC - locks - hypermedia <3 I'm building a HAL-based API

2012-06-14 18:20:03 UTC - locks - haven't looked into ALPS, steve's client didn't quite work on my 'puter

2012-06-14 18:20:06 UTC - carols10cents - locks: are you running into any issues or is it all happy?

2012-06-14 18:20:15 UTC - carols10cents - locks: the client didnt work or shoes didnt work?

2012-06-14 18:20:31 UTC - locks - some problem with shoes iirc

2012-06-14 18:20:45 UTC - locks - it's pretty much all happy

2012-06-14 18:21:08 UTC - locks - besides having to scrape some sites for the info :P

2012-06-14 18:21:20 UTC - carols10cents - i was having a problem with shoes too and when i did a dev build it worked, and wasnt too hard

2012-06-14 18:21:24 UTC - locks - it's great changing and adding stuff and it just working

2012-06-14 18:21:40 UTC - carols10cents - locks: is there authentication in what you're doing?

2012-06-14 18:21:59 UTC - locks - not yet, no

2012-06-14 18:22:57 UTC - carols10cents - that's something i'm struggling with a bit right now :( since alps requires http auth and rstatus has auth through a form and oauth

2012-06-14 18:23:24 UTC - carols10cents - i tried to integrate warden and warden-oauth to make one authentication interface that has a bunch of schemes

2012-06-14 18:23:33 UTC - locks - hm, that does seem tricky

2012-06-14 18:23:43 UTC - locks - oauth is a bit of a pain

2012-06-14 18:23:49 UTC - carols10cents - but warden-oauth hasnt been updated and doesnt work with current warden, and old warden doesnt work with rails 3.1 :(

2012-06-14 18:24:05 UTC - locks - http://cs-api.heroku.com/api/browser#/ my API so far, using mike's hal browser

2012-06-14 18:24:50 UTC - locks - jaimeiniesta suggested Doorkeeper the other day, not sure if it's applicable

2012-06-14 18:25:48 UTC - notbrent - hackday!

2012-06-14 18:26:04 UTC - jordanbyron - YEAH!

2012-06-14 18:26:33 UTC - jordanbyron - notbrent: Are you ready for some sick hacks?

2012-06-14 18:26:41 UTC - locks - woohoo!

2012-06-14 18:26:52 UTC - jordanbyron - I know locks is ;)

2012-06-14 18:27:24 UTC - carols10cents - locks: hmmm doorkeeper looks like an oauth provider, not a consumer?

2012-06-14 18:27:39 UTC - carols10cents - i might be misunderstanding though

2012-06-14 18:27:39 UTC - locks - carols10cents: right, my bad ^_^;

2012-06-14 18:28:19 UTC - carols10cents - thanks for telling me about it though, i like hearing about things i havent heard of before :D

2012-06-14 18:28:22 UTC - locks - jordanbyron: I actually want a code review for my gem, but it's still not quite ready for that

2012-06-14 18:29:42 UTC - jordanbyron - Cool! Add it to the wiki and if there is anything people can help you out with just let us know. http://git.io/Ao7DfA

2012-06-14 18:36:19 UTC - locks - carols10cents: how hard is rstatus to set up? I might pick one of the issues

2012-06-14 18:36:55 UTC - carols10cents - locks: I haven't done it from scratch recently, but I'd be interested to know if there are any roadblocks :D

2012-06-14 18:36:59 UTC - carols10cents - do you have mongo locally?

2012-06-14 18:37:45 UTC - jordanbyron - Hi sindhri :)

2012-06-14 18:37:46 UTC - locks - apparently not

2012-06-14 18:37:51 UTC - locks - brewing it

2012-06-14 18:38:00 UTC - sindhri - i'm reading about multi-armed bandit test versus a/b test, http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4040022 in case anyone is interested

2012-06-14 18:38:16 UTC - sindhri - hi jordan :)

2012-06-14 18:40:36 UTC - seacreature - WELL HELLO THERE chastell

2012-06-14 18:40:56 UTC - seacreature - GET THAT CAPSLOCK KEY FIXED YET? :-P

2012-06-14 18:41:10 UTC - jordanbyron - Just merged a patch and cut a new release of md_emoji. I think I am going to play around with travis for md_emoji since that should be fairly easy to do (famous last words)

2012-06-14 18:41:16 UTC - jordanbyron - Also, link: https://rubygems.org/gems/md_emoji

2012-06-14 18:41:32 UTC - chastell - hi! it seems somebody took it

2012-06-14 18:41:39 UTC - chastell - wondering who it might’ve been

2012-06-14 18:42:01 UTC - jordanbyron - ACTION looks around nervously

2012-06-14 18:42:11 UTC - chastell - as if, jordanbyron, as if…

2012-06-14 18:42:35 UTC - chastell - (getting the urge to keep writing lowercase all night long, let’s see how it goes…)

2012-06-14 18:43:56 UTC - seacreature - watch out, we're also on the look out for a couple parentheses bandits!

2012-06-14 18:44:14 UTC - jordanbyron - carols10cents: I know this isn't hack day related, but I thought you might want to hear our WIP marching band show for the fall. Closer still needs some work, but I'm happy with the direction we are headed: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/351364/celestial%20june%2014%20sound.mp3

2012-06-14 18:44:35 UTC - carols10cents - jordanbyron: always!

2012-06-14 18:46:03 UTC - seacreature - chastell: wouldn't mind to hear what you think of https://github.com/elm-city-craftworks/broken_record when you get a chance

2012-06-14 18:46:15 UTC - seacreature - i'll be AFK for a bit but back in a couple hours

2012-06-14 18:50:54 UTC - chastell - sure, lemme take a look :)

2012-06-14 18:51:06 UTC - jordanbyron - And md_emoji is on travis-ci: http://travis-ci.org/#!/mendicant-university/md_emoji

2012-06-14 18:53:56 UTC - jordanbyron - Hey ptn777! Welcome to the Hack Day

2012-06-14 18:54:28 UTC - ptn777 - jordanbyron: hello! \o/

2012-06-14 18:55:08 UTC - ptn777 - and hello to the rest of you, my fellow unicorns :D

2012-06-14 18:55:15 UTC - jordanbyron - Have you come to participate in the art of hack making or are you just passing through?

2012-06-14 18:56:58 UTC - jordanbyron - locks: You never added your project to the wiki. I was going to check it out

2012-06-14 18:57:08 UTC - locks - oops

2012-06-14 18:57:21 UTC - ptn777 - I'll be on and off at first, maybe later I can join in :)

2012-06-14 18:57:23 UTC - notbrent - jordanbyron: sick hacks! yes!

2012-06-14 18:57:51 UTC - jordanbyron - ptn777: Awesome. I'm just glad to see you :)

2012-06-14 18:57:55 UTC - jordanbyron - notbrent: What are you working on?

2012-06-14 18:59:24 UTC - notbrent - i'm at work but about to get on my lunch break, might work on my slideshow app: http://deck.webbyapp.com/decks/1/slides/1

2012-06-14 19:00:06 UTC - jordanbyron - Nice. Looks sharp. I love that font

2012-06-14 19:00:30 UTC - notbrent - thanks :) hopefully will look much nicer with backbone

2012-06-14 19:00:37 UTC - notbrent - i've converted about half of it so far

2012-06-14 19:00:52 UTC - notbrent - makes it much smoother

2012-06-14 19:01:22 UTC - jordanbyron - I'm checking out the code now...

2012-06-14 19:01:36 UTC - notbrent - the backbone branch is more interesting

2012-06-14 19:02:06 UTC - jordanbyron - And now I am looking at the more interesting code ;)

2012-06-14 19:02:18 UTC - jordanbyron - Everything is nice and organized. You make me so happy

2012-06-14 19:02:21 UTC - notbrent - hahaha

2012-06-14 19:03:08 UTC - notbrent - i couldn't go as extreme with all out backbone with js at work, but i poached mission of mercy / puzzlenode style namespacing

2012-06-14 19:03:22 UTC - notbrent - and i actually added a method to it that might be useful, i'll gist it for you 1 sec

2012-06-14 19:04:20 UTC - jordanbyron - Ok cool. I was going to mention the namespacing thing. I notice you are writing this line all over: https://github.com/brentvatne/deck/blob/backbone/app/assets/dynamic/coffeescripts/router.coffee#L29

2012-06-14 19:05:14 UTC - andres-fc - Speaking of backbone, would you guys recommend it? I get the vibe that it's a lot of overhead

2012-06-14 19:05:30 UTC - notbrent - https://gist.github.com/cb90a4ffa7303a756973

2012-06-14 19:05:47 UTC - jordanbyron - andres-fc: Unfortunately I have zero experience with it, but maybe notbrent can comment on that

2012-06-14 19:05:48 UTC - notbrent - jordanbyron: yeah, i cargo culted that from the peepcode screencasts

2012-06-14 19:07:12 UTC - chastell - seacreature: I looked through broken record and I like it! I also have some comments, so ping me when you’re back

2012-06-14 19:07:23 UTC - jordanbyron - notbrent: As long as you are sure that loads first, then you should only have to do: window.DeckApp || {} once

2012-06-14 19:07:25 UTC - notbrent - andres-fc: i haven't done it on a large scale app, it's nice for a small one though

2012-06-14 19:07:41 UTC - notbrent - jordanbyron: true, that would be nice to remove that line everywhere

2012-06-14 19:07:57 UTC - jordanbyron - And then from there on out reference window.DeckApp or just DeckApp (but coffeescript might give you problems with that, I'm not sure)

2012-06-14 19:08:14 UTC - jordanbyron - Worth playing around with at some point

2012-06-14 19:08:17 UTC - jordanbyron - So that gist

2012-06-14 19:08:33 UTC - jordanbyron - Do you have time to walk me through it. I think I follow, but I want to make sure

2012-06-14 19:08:55 UTC - andres-fc - notbrent: Hmm, I guess I'll have to dive into and evaluate

2012-06-14 19:08:59 UTC - notbrent - so basically i added a method called setElements to each namespace

2012-06-14 19:09:26 UTC - notbrent - it allows you to specify all of the elements that will be used in the page during the init block

2012-06-14 19:09:32 UTC - notbrent - and give them a name

2012-06-14 19:09:44 UTC - notbrent - then you can refer to them with this.$elementName elsewhere within the namespace

2012-06-14 19:09:57 UTC - jordanbyron - Gotcha, that's what I thought

2012-06-14 19:10:10 UTC - jordanbyron - And the $elementName is that a common naming convention for JS?

2012-06-14 19:10:10 UTC - notbrent - i find it is cleaner than repeating jquery selectors all over the place

2012-06-14 19:10:20 UTC - jordanbyron - I've seen it a few times before

2012-06-14 19:10:22 UTC - notbrent - yeah, when working with jquery it seems fairly common

2012-06-14 19:10:34 UTC - notbrent - it indicates that you're dealing with a jquery element

2012-06-14 19:10:36 UTC - jordanbyron - notbrent: Oh yeah caching those lookup values is key for performance

2012-06-14 19:10:41 UTC - jordanbyron - Gotcha

2012-06-14 19:10:53 UTC - jordanbyron - Cool I learned something :)

2012-06-14 19:10:55 UTC - jordanbyron - Thank you

2012-06-14 19:11:01 UTC - notbrent - of course caching the values could have consequences if you have a very dynamic page

2012-06-14 19:11:08 UTC - notbrent - but in lots of cases this works

2012-06-14 19:11:13 UTC - jordanbyron - Yup

2012-06-14 19:11:13 UTC - notbrent - :D

2012-06-14 19:11:50 UTC - notbrent - this was great because it allowed me to clean up 200 lines of javascript inlined in a haml template to a nice namespace

2012-06-14 19:11:54 UTC - jordanbyron - And what benefits does $.extend(Vsx.ProductForm, … give you over Vsx.ProductForm.init = function() ...

2012-06-14 19:12:04 UTC - notbrent - it allows me to specify the function names more easily

2012-06-14 19:12:24 UTC - jordanbyron - Instead of having to write Vsx.ProductForm each time?

2012-06-14 19:12:26 UTC - notbrent - instead of: Vsx.ProductForm.functionName

2012-06-14 19:12:33 UTC - notbrent - i can just extend and then use object notation

2012-06-14 19:12:38 UTC - jordanbyron - Gotcha

2012-06-14 19:12:39 UTC - jordanbyron - Cool

2012-06-14 19:12:43 UTC - jordanbyron - I like that too

2012-06-14 19:12:47 UTC - jordanbyron - Nice and clean

2012-06-14 19:12:53 UTC - notbrent - :D

2012-06-14 19:13:10 UTC - jordanbyron - Of course I've been loving coffeescript as of late, so I don't use this style as frequently as I used to

2012-06-14 19:13:54 UTC - notbrent - yeah i love coffeescript!

2012-06-14 19:13:59 UTC - seacreature - that sounds suspiciously familiar to the Ruby equivalent of mixing in a module so that you can type

2012-06-14 19:14:04 UTC - notbrent - then this.$someElementName just becomes @$someElementName

2012-06-14 19:14:09 UTC - seacreature - foo() instead of SomeName.foo()

2012-06-14 19:14:27 UTC - seacreature - but I don't know javascript at all

2012-06-14 19:14:46 UTC - seacreature - if it IS that though, it's worth pointing out that is an antipattern

2012-06-14 19:14:53 UTC - seacreature - because it smashes namespaces together

2012-06-14 19:17:11 UTC - jordanbyron - seacreature: I think it's a little different. notbrent correct me if I am wrong, but in this case we have an object Vsx.ProductForm and we are adding a bunch of methods to it by passing in another object (The { init: …} block) which never exists anywhere but on Vas.ProductForm

2012-06-14 19:17:38 UTC - jordanbyron - I don't think I did a great job explaining that, but I hope you get the idea

2012-06-14 19:17:58 UTC - jordanbyron - Of course you could make it like a module mixin. Let me gist some codez

2012-06-14 19:18:00 UTC - seacreature - jordanbyron: how is that different than obj.extend(Something)

2012-06-14 19:18:15 UTC - notbrent - yeah exactly

2012-06-14 19:18:28 UTC - notbrent - i think it's very similar

2012-06-14 19:18:36 UTC - seacreature - then that's exactly my point

2012-06-14 19:18:42 UTC - seacreature - it smashes two namespaces together :)

2012-06-14 19:19:04 UTC - notbrent - the difference being that everything is a function in javascript

2012-06-14 19:19:40 UTC - notbrent - well now i'm not sure if that's true haha

2012-06-14 19:19:43 UTC - jordanbyron - seacreature: https://gist.github.com/cb90a4ffa7303a756973#comments

2012-06-14 19:19:51 UTC - notbrent - but basically it takes an object and just adds some properties to it, which happen to be functions

2012-06-14 19:20:07 UTC - notbrent - jordanbyron: yup

2012-06-14 19:20:58 UTC - seacreature - There is no difference between this and Ruby mixins that I can see

2012-06-14 19:21:33 UTC - notbrent - yeah i agree, looks the same to me

2012-06-14 19:21:33 UTC - seacreature - You are merging two namespaces together to save yourself typing

2012-06-14 19:21:59 UTC - seacreature - but you increase the complexity of your code greatly by doing so

2012-06-14 19:22:03 UTC - notbrent - $.extend iterates over every property of the object and assigns it to the one you're extending

2012-06-14 19:22:18 UTC - jordanbyron - notbrent: That's what I thought

2012-06-14 19:22:19 UTC - notbrent - it's very common practice in js and a very cheap operation

2012-06-14 19:22:20 UTC - seacreature - that is a horrible idea :-/

2012-06-14 19:23:11 UTC - notbrent - why does it increase complexity?

2012-06-14 19:23:31 UTC - seacreature - because now your object is actually whatever you built + the entire implementation of whatever you mixed in

2012-06-14 19:23:42 UTC - notbrent - seacreature: http://backbonejs.org/#Model-extend

2012-06-14 19:23:48 UTC - seacreature - so you are responsible for knowing implementation details of whatever you mixed in

2012-06-14 19:24:43 UTC - seacreature - it makes it very difficult to reason about your objects

2012-06-14 19:24:56 UTC - seacreature - for the same reason that inheritance (of any form) always does

2012-06-14 19:25:08 UTC - notbrent - typically extend is 'whatever you built'

2012-06-14 19:25:20 UTC - notbrent - it's not used a lot for mixing in foreign code

2012-06-14 19:25:25 UTC - seacreature - even still

2012-06-14 19:25:32 UTC - notbrent - you start with some base class like a Backbone.Model and then use extend to add your methods

2012-06-14 19:25:38 UTC - seacreature - what is the point of having objects if you just mix them together?

2012-06-14 19:26:00 UTC - notbrent - hahaha

2012-06-14 19:26:06 UTC - seacreature - It's a serious question

2012-06-14 19:26:12 UTC - notbrent - sounds funny though

2012-06-14 19:26:26 UTC - notbrent - i guess the answer is that you don't really do that

2012-06-14 19:26:39 UTC - notbrent - in practice it's used like inheritance

2012-06-14 19:27:05 UTC - seacreature - Right, which is the root cause of the problem

2012-06-14 19:27:09 UTC - jordanbyron - notbrent: Does this look right? https://gist.github.com/cb90a4ffa7303a756973#gistcomment-351715

2012-06-14 19:27:18 UTC - jordanbyron - Or am I making stuff up?

2012-06-14 19:27:32 UTC - notbrent - jordanbyron: exactly

2012-06-14 19:27:33 UTC - seacreature - Inheritance is not meant to be used for the purpose of simply tightly binding objects together

2012-06-14 19:27:34 UTC - locks - added myself to https://github.com/mendicant/mendicantuniversity.org/wiki/Global-hack-day-5

2012-06-14 19:27:40 UTC - seacreature - it's meant to be used to implement subtypes

2012-06-14 19:27:43 UTC - jordanbyron - locks: Awesome. Thanks

2012-06-14 19:28:20 UTC - locks - notbrent: I'm liking this

2012-06-14 19:28:44 UTC - seacreature - consider this example: https://gist.github.com/2932373

2012-06-14 19:29:09 UTC - seacreature - How many namespaces are there, from the perspective of D?

2012-06-14 19:30:07 UTC - notbrent - not sure what you mean

2012-06-14 19:30:10 UTC - notbrent - one? three?

2012-06-14 19:30:14 UTC - seacreature - 1

2012-06-14 19:30:29 UTC - seacreature - you can basically copy and paste the contents of A, B, C into D

2012-06-14 19:30:34 UTC - seacreature - and that's what you end up with

2012-06-14 19:30:39 UTC - notbrent - yeah

2012-06-14 19:30:50 UTC - seacreature - this does not create any modularity

2012-06-14 19:30:51 UTC - notbrent - locks: :D

2012-06-14 19:31:22 UTC - jordanbyron - seacreature: Did you take a look at my latest example? It's a simplified version which might help us out

2012-06-14 19:31:25 UTC - seacreature - there is no encapsulation between the objects, real subobjects

2012-06-14 19:31:37 UTC - notbrent - right! i see what you mean now seacreature

2012-06-14 19:32:23 UTC - seacreature - jordanbyron: that example shows why this is a bad idea

2012-06-14 19:32:30 UTC - chastell - (it’s as if seacreature was writing a book on composing objects together!)

2012-06-14 19:32:56 UTC - jordanbyron - Can you elaborate using this example for me?

2012-06-14 19:32:58 UTC - savage- - oh baby

2012-06-14 19:33:03 UTC - savage- - I love objects.

2012-06-14 19:33:04 UTC - seacreature - sure

2012-06-14 19:33:07 UTC - jordanbyron - Thanks :)

2012-06-14 19:34:12 UTC - notbrent - so the reason why i think this is not an issue is that really all we are doing here is defining a single class

2012-06-14 19:35:18 UTC - notbrent - brb grabbing some lunch to go

2012-06-14 19:36:03 UTC - jordanbyron - notbrent: That's what I keep getting hung up on too, but I also see what seacreature is saying. I just don't see the practical drawbacks, since I don't consider { firstName: 'Jordan', lastName: 'Byron'} a useful (or reusable) namespace / object, just a handy way to define properties on another object.

2012-06-14 19:36:35 UTC - savage- - seacreature: A thought: Should I be afraid to include Mongoid::Document or BrokenRecord::Mapping because it pollutes/merges my namespace wiht another?

2012-06-14 19:37:28 UTC - savage- - seacreature: I might be forced to study the implementation details of Mongoid::Document/BrokenRecord::Mapping to make sure that I don't define a method like #initialize or #map_to_table

2012-06-14 19:41:26 UTC - seacreature - jordanbyron: if all you are using it for is the equivalent of Hash#update, that's fine

2012-06-14 19:41:52 UTC - seacreature - it's when you start mixing in things that aren't simple values (such as functions) that it feels very awkward

2012-06-14 19:41:57 UTC - jordanbyron - seacreature: That's it. This example is something I've never done in practice: https://gist.github.com/cb90a4ffa7303a756973#gistcomment-351704

2012-06-14 19:42:20 UTC - jordanbyron - Err, let me expand my example then

2012-06-14 19:42:36 UTC - jordanbyron - Because I definitely define functions using those methods

2012-06-14 19:43:00 UTC - seacreature - the thing is, say you have a list of N properties

2012-06-14 19:43:31 UTC - seacreature - you could mix all N into an object, or you could add just a single property that composes things

2012-06-14 19:43:51 UTC - jordanbyron - seacreature: Updated: https://gist.github.com/cb90a4ffa7303a756973#gistcomment-351715

2012-06-14 19:46:20 UTC - seacreature - https://gist.github.com/2932464

2012-06-14 19:47:22 UTC - seacreature - in the mixin based example, the Employee class is a set union of its own functionality and the Person functionality

2012-06-14 19:47:46 UTC - seacreature - in the class based example, they are two separate entities, and nothing about the Person object is exposed by default

2012-06-14 19:47:58 UTC - jordanbyron - Yup that makes sense

2012-06-14 19:48:20 UTC - locks - the second example brings to mind some of avdi's thoughts on 'objects on rails'

2012-06-14 19:49:02 UTC - seacreature - it's not a new idea

2012-06-14 19:49:35 UTC - seacreature - composition over inheritance is an idea that was fought (and largely won) in the 80's and 90's

2012-06-14 19:49:53 UTC - locks - right

2012-06-14 19:50:17 UTC - seacreature - here's what I think... there isn't anything wrong with writing non-OO code

2012-06-14 19:50:23 UTC - locks - from what I can remember Kindle reading me on the car is that the second example creates a seam, and Employee is just a mediator to Person

2012-06-14 19:50:28 UTC - seacreature - but we inherit so much complexity by using OO languages

2012-06-14 19:50:30 UTC - locks - which makes sense, depending on the codebase

2012-06-14 19:50:42 UTC - seacreature - why give up the most simple, fundamental thing they offer? (encapsulation)

2012-06-14 19:51:43 UTC - seacreature - Especially when it's typically out of a desire to save a programmer a few characters of typing here and there, and not out of any real design sense

2012-06-14 19:52:16 UTC - jordanbyron - Hey johnnymuggs!

2012-06-14 19:52:27 UTC - johnnymuggs - heyo!

2012-06-14 19:52:28 UTC - seacreature - for example jordanbyron, I fail to see how your simplified example actually simplifies anything at all

2012-06-14 19:52:54 UTC - seacreature - what does it gain you?

2012-06-14 19:52:55 UTC - jordanbyron - seacreature: Oh well it was "simplified" compared to the first gist that notbrent created.

2012-06-14 19:53:00 UTC - seacreature - i see

2012-06-14 19:53:03 UTC - jordanbyron - Just less going on

2012-06-14 19:53:11 UTC - seacreature - wait, what?

2012-06-14 19:53:30 UTC - seacreature - when you use extend, it walks EVERY field and copies them onto another object

2012-06-14 19:53:40 UTC - seacreature - and preserves some sort of inheritance semantics it sounds like

2012-06-14 19:53:44 UTC - seacreature - how is that less going on?

2012-06-14 19:54:14 UTC - notbrent - hmm

2012-06-14 19:54:31 UTC - locks - $.extend is jquery?

2012-06-14 19:54:32 UTC - seacreature - we really need to stop thinking that because typing "launch nukes" is less effort than typing "make a sandwich" that the former is less complex!

2012-06-14 19:54:46 UTC - notbrent - locks: yes, the equivalent exists for underscore too

2012-06-14 19:54:51 UTC - seacreature - you need to understand a LOT more about this code to understand what .extend is doing

2012-06-14 19:54:57 UTC - notbrent - $.extend is the same as {}.merge({}) in ruby

2012-06-14 19:55:10 UTC - johnnymuggs - oh man i didn't even realize today was a hack day. i'm home sick, it would have been perfect to hang out and do some not-work

2012-06-14 19:55:28 UTC - locks - johnnymuggs: jump in then ^_^

2012-06-14 19:55:42 UTC - johnnymuggs - i've got aobut thirty minutes. anybody want some help on something?

2012-06-14 19:55:43 UTC - seacreature - except that in javascript it's really closer to obj.instance_variables.each { |k,v| other_obj.instance_variable_set("#{k}=", v) }

2012-06-14 19:55:52 UTC - jordanbyron - seacreature: My example object is less complex than notbrent's original gist. That's what I meant when I said there is "less going on"

2012-06-14 19:56:06 UTC - jordanbyron - It's a little more straight forward and easy to follow

2012-06-14 19:56:28 UTC - seacreature - I see. I think we crossed threads

2012-06-14 19:56:31 UTC - notbrent - well a javascript object is essentially a hash

2012-06-14 19:56:32 UTC - jordanbyron - johnnymuggs: Here is what everyone is working on: https://github.com/mendicant/mendicantuniversity.org/wiki/Global-Hack-Day-5

2012-06-14 19:56:43 UTC - seacreature - What I was asking was how extend() is gaining us anything

2012-06-14 19:56:50 UTC - jordanbyron - Gotcha

2012-06-14 19:56:54 UTC - notbrent - oh

2012-06-14 19:57:05 UTC - jordanbyron - Yeah sorry sometimes it takes me a little while to get my words straight :p

2012-06-14 19:57:11 UTC - notbrent - seacreature: which of the three options that jordanbyron wrote up do you prefer?

2012-06-14 19:57:32 UTC - seacreature - javascript is such a scary language :)

2012-06-14 19:57:39 UTC - seacreature - its objects are literally openstructs

2012-06-14 19:57:43 UTC - notbrent - yep

2012-06-14 19:57:48 UTC - alindeman - OpenStructs with inheritance ;)

2012-06-14 19:57:59 UTC - alindeman - (only for retrieval though)

2012-06-14 19:58:00 UTC - savage- - it's so sad that most "Ruby jobs" are actually js/html/css jobs :-(

2012-06-14 19:58:09 UTC - seacreature - but option #2 seems best

2012-06-14 19:58:25 UTC - seacreature - because in theory you could use local variables there to make private attributes, right?

2012-06-14 19:58:38 UTC - notbrent - the problem with #2 is that we have defined some methods we want to reuse

2012-06-14 19:59:02 UTC - seacreature - okay, so I think that reuse is best done by passing objects into a constructor and calling methods on them

2012-06-14 19:59:03 UTC - notbrent - with the setupNamespace function

2012-06-14 19:59:08 UTC - alindeman - seacreature: It's possible to hide attributes via locals and closures, yah

2012-06-14 19:59:13 UTC - johnnymuggs - jordanbyron: thanks!

2012-06-14 19:59:27 UTC - alindeman - seacreature: JS The Good Parts has nice examples, though I found it usually overkill

2012-06-14 19:59:34 UTC - jordanbyron - johnnymuggs: No problem. Let us know what looks interesting to you and hopefully we can get you up and running ;)

2012-06-14 19:59:34 UTC - seacreature - now please, don't take my advice about javascript!

2012-06-14 19:59:42 UTC - notbrent - :)

2012-06-14 19:59:50 UTC - seacreature - I'm talking about OO practices, not how Javascript ought to be written

2012-06-14 19:59:53 UTC - jordanbyron - alindeman: totally agree

2012-06-14 20:00:11 UTC - johnnymuggs - jordanbyron: is there anything i can do for rstat.us or mendicant quickly?

2012-06-14 20:00:30 UTC - locks - 'the good parts' is a mixed blessing

2012-06-14 20:00:31 UTC - jordanbyron - carols10cents: any low hanging fruit on rstat.us for johnnymuggs?

2012-06-14 20:00:32 UTC - seacreature - the main thing that got me off on this tangent is simply the tendency of people to say "let's just mix this in, it makes it so I don't have to type Something.foo"

2012-06-14 20:00:48 UTC - seacreature - and then the consequences of doing so aren't even discussed at all

2012-06-14 20:01:12 UTC - seacreature - so now we've had the discussion. I probably would not have butted in, but I'm literally working on this topic right now :)

2012-06-14 20:01:30 UTC - seacreature - https://github.com/elm-city-craftworks/broken_record/blob/master/lib/broken_record/composable.rb

2012-06-14 20:01:37 UTC - seacreature - having to explain why I would ever build this thing :)

2012-06-14 20:02:43 UTC - savage- - can people see what I'm typing here?

2012-06-14 20:02:44 UTC - jordanbyron - johnnymuggs: For Mendicant I want to add a link to the RSS feed and Google Calendar to our site. But I need to find a classy way to do that. I you are comfortable rolling up your sleeves and doing some front end work you can take a stab at that

2012-06-14 20:02:48 UTC - savage- - just curious, I've been having irc issues

2012-06-14 20:02:51 UTC - seacreature - savage-: yup!

2012-06-14 20:02:55 UTC - locks - savage-: nope ;)

2012-06-14 20:02:55 UTC - savage- - seacreature: thanks :)

2012-06-14 20:03:07 UTC - savage- - crazy nickserv :)

2012-06-14 20:03:10 UTC - savage- - thanks guys.

2012-06-14 20:03:13 UTC - johnnymuggs - jordanbyron: what do you mean by classy?

2012-06-14 20:03:29 UTC - jordanbyron - hahaha what you can't read my mind ;)

2012-06-14 20:03:45 UTC - johnnymuggs - hahaha

2012-06-14 20:04:10 UTC - johnnymuggs - well i assume you mean nice looking links

2012-06-14 20:04:16 UTC - jordanbyron - By "sharp" i mean I want them to be on the page, but not stick out like a sore thumb or look tacked on

2012-06-14 20:04:25 UTC - jordanbyron - Which is hard since the entire site is super minimal: http://mendicantuniversity.org/

2012-06-14 20:05:02 UTC - seacreature - anyway, sorry to derail discussion about your project notbrent

2012-06-14 20:05:14 UTC - seacreature - it was accidental, but still a bit rude of me

2012-06-14 20:05:20 UTC - johnnymuggs - jordanbyron: okay, i can putz around on this

2012-06-14 20:05:23 UTC - johnnymuggs - ah!

2012-06-14 20:05:23 UTC - notbrent - no problem, it was an interesting discussion in the end

2012-06-14 20:06:34 UTC - johnnymuggs - i hope it's not inappropriate to ask this here but now might be a good time to mention that i'm looking to interview coders of all skill levels about their relationship to code. -- i'm scheduled to give a talk about code from an anthropology point of view in september...

2012-06-14 20:06:37 UTC - notbrent - it's too bad our hackdays can't be on saturdays :(

2012-06-14 20:06:55 UTC - seacreature - jordanbyron: it is inappropriate to ever mention job opportunities here

2012-06-14 20:06:56 UTC - notbrent - johnnymuggs: brentvatne@gmail.com

2012-06-14 20:06:58 UTC - seacreature - err.

2012-06-14 20:07:01 UTC - seacreature - johnnymuggs:

2012-06-14 20:07:02 UTC - notbrent - not a job opp

2012-06-14 20:07:12 UTC - johnnymuggs - notbrent: +1 i could do these more often on saturdays

2012-06-14 20:07:12 UTC - notbrent - :D

2012-06-14 20:07:13 UTC - seacreature - holy shit, I'm just a bad human being

2012-06-14 20:07:24 UTC - notbrent - hahaha

2012-06-14 20:07:27 UTC - seacreature - johnnymuggs: Absolutely the right place to mention it!

2012-06-14 20:07:31 UTC - notbrent - we love you seacreature

2012-06-14 20:07:44 UTC - jordanbyron - Man seacreature is on a roll :p

2012-06-14 20:07:45 UTC - johnnymuggs - hahaha i guess i shouldn't have led with "i'm looking to interview coders of all skill levels" ;)

2012-06-14 20:07:47 UTC - seacreature - it's a bad beard day

2012-06-14 20:07:48 UTC - ericgj - jonnymuggs: where are you giving a talk on anthropology of coders ?

2012-06-14 20:08:05 UTC - johnnymuggs - sapporo rubykaigi and also at my office at pivotal labs

2012-06-14 20:08:06 UTC - seacreature - part of the problem is right now I have IRC on a 25 inch screen with no wrapping

2012-06-14 20:08:30 UTC - notbrent - 27" no wrapping here

2012-06-14 20:08:30 UTC - seacreature - so "inappropriate", "interview", and "talk" are about 10 inches apart

2012-06-14 20:08:53 UTC - seacreature - johnnymuggs: you're going to RubyKaigi? Awesome!

2012-06-14 20:09:23 UTC - johnnymuggs - seacreature: thanks! yeah I'm ridiculously humbled by the opportunity and super excited

2012-06-14 20:09:29 UTC - johnnymuggs - (and a little scared haha)

2012-06-14 20:09:37 UTC - jordanbyron - johnnymuggs: If that doesn't tickle your fancy we also wanted to add a little separator between future / past activities. That should be easy : http://mendicantuniversity.org/activities.html

2012-06-14 20:10:09 UTC - jordanbyron - I thought RubyKaigi was no more?

2012-06-14 20:10:14 UTC - johnnymuggs - jordanbyron: thanks. i've just gotten the site up locally.

2012-06-14 20:10:29 UTC - johnnymuggs - jordanbyron: that's true, this is a smaller regional one

2012-06-14 20:10:44 UTC - johnnymuggs - notbrent: thanks for the e-mail, i'll be in touch when i have some good questions!

2012-06-14 20:10:48 UTC - jordanbyron - johnnymuggs: Oh ok. Good I thought I was going crazy :p

2012-06-14 20:10:54 UTC - notbrent - cool :)

2012-06-14 20:11:05 UTC - seacreature - johnnymuggs: feel free to post about interviewing coders on the mendicant-community mailing list

2012-06-14 20:11:25 UTC - jordanbyron - seacreature / johnnymuggs oh good idea

2012-06-14 20:11:25 UTC - notbrent - ooh the june 19th discussion looks very interesting

2012-06-14 20:11:28 UTC - notbrent - definitely tuning in for that one

2012-06-14 20:11:31 UTC - johnnymuggs - seacreature: thanks! will do.

2012-06-14 20:11:50 UTC - jordanbyron - notbrent: Yeah sean_m is hosting that. I can't wait :)

2012-06-14 20:12:03 UTC - locks - carols10cents: do I need to edit the rvm to check out the rbx bug?

2012-06-14 20:12:09 UTC - locks - or?

2012-06-14 20:12:23 UTC - notbrent - mendicant site todo: write some js that allows you to hover over a utc datetime and converts it in a dialog box to your local time

2012-06-14 20:12:39 UTC - jordanbyron - locks: Not sure if she can respond right now, looks like she is having "one of those days" at work: http://twitter.com/Carols10cents/status/213360956078702593

2012-06-14 20:12:41 UTC - seacreature - hmm... that's a pretty interesting idea notbrent

2012-06-14 20:13:04 UTC - seacreature - does javascript make it possible to pull your local time from your browser?

2012-06-14 20:13:05 UTC - jordanbyron - notbrent: What are you waiting for: https://github.com/mendicant/mendicantuniversity.org

2012-06-14 20:13:11 UTC - jordanbyron - <3

2012-06-14 20:13:12 UTC - notbrent - seacreature: yep

2012-06-14 20:13:12 UTC - seacreature - *timezone

2012-06-14 20:13:20 UTC - notbrent - i'll have a go at that tonight

2012-06-14 20:13:28 UTC - seacreature - that's a very cool idea.

2012-06-14 20:13:33 UTC - jordanbyron - notbrent: And I will love you forever

2012-06-14 20:13:36 UTC - notbrent - hahaha

2012-06-14 20:14:09 UTC - seacreature - how will it work? would we use a span with a class or something

2012-06-14 20:14:17 UTC - notbrent - yeah that was my first thought

2012-06-14 20:14:24 UTC - ericgj - great idea notbrent

2012-06-14 20:14:29 UTC - notbrent - ...

2012-06-14 20:14:45 UTC - jordanbyron - Oh boy, watch out folks, seacreature is talking about javascript again

2012-06-14 20:14:51 UTC - notbrent - jordanbyron: trololol

2012-06-14 20:14:53 UTC - seacreature - I'm glad I managed to find a way to not insult you about this :)

2012-06-14 20:15:42 UTC - seacreature - I think the problem is this: I'm listening to really loud classical music, eating really hot soup, my room is incredibly hot, and I'm feeling like I should be writing but I love hack day so much I keep coming back to IRC

2012-06-14 20:15:53 UTC - carols10cents - locks: you should be able to just rvm use rbx

2012-06-14 20:15:58 UTC - seacreature - so it's like I'm taking all my hot, sweaty, distracted mood out on everyone :)

2012-06-14 20:16:05 UTC - carols10cents - and jordanbyron is right, i'm having one of those days

2012-06-14 20:16:16 UTC - jordanbyron - carols10cents: :'(

2012-06-14 20:16:19 UTC - locks - darn :(

2012-06-14 20:16:20 UTC - notbrent - right well time for me to go back to work, no coding done afterall but good discussion. will keep you posted about how the timezone idea goes

2012-06-14 20:16:21 UTC - carols10cents - and i'm surprised seacreature hasn't said anything about the .rvmrc being checked in yet ;)

2012-06-14 20:16:31 UTC - seacreature - ahahaha

2012-06-14 20:16:32 UTC - jordanbyron - Wait for it ...

2012-06-14 20:16:44 UTC - jordanbyron - Thanks notbrent!

2012-06-14 20:16:45 UTC - seacreature - I already complained about that privately :)

2012-06-14 20:17:00 UTC - jordanbyron - notbrent: https://github.com/mendicant/mendicantuniversity.org/issues/20

2012-06-14 20:17:30 UTC - ericgj - speaking of those of us who know nothing about javascript....

2012-06-14 20:17:38 UTC - locks - I just got a daily digest of the hal-discuss ML and both posts are mine, geez

2012-06-14 20:17:58 UTC - locks - something is up with my rvm/rbx. hm.

2012-06-14 20:18:19 UTC - ericgj - I set up a little project to test out stuff for the Beautiful Visualizations book club

2012-06-14 20:18:37 UTC - ericgj - that Rafa is running

2012-06-14 20:18:51 UTC - ericgj - https://github.com/ericgj/beautiful-workbench

2012-06-14 20:19:02 UTC - jordanbyron - Details about the club: http://mendicantuniversity.org/updates/2012/06/04/reading-club-beautiful-visualization.html

2012-06-14 20:19:15 UTC - seacreature - ericgj: you and rafa have been doing really neat stuff there, thanks for that

2012-06-14 20:19:39 UTC - ericgj - it's a hacked together sinatra app that makes it a little easier to share code examples basically

2012-06-14 20:19:48 UTC - ericgj - contributions welcome

2012-06-14 20:20:19 UTC - carols10cents - wooo, i shoved a yak in locks' path! muahaha

2012-06-14 20:20:20 UTC - jordanbyron - ericgj: Cool. What javascript questions did you have?

2012-06-14 20:20:49 UTC - locks - carols10cents: I only go five levels deep, so cross yer fingers :P

2012-06-14 20:23:24 UTC - ericgj - basically I know nothing about code organization in js, and have a very shallow understanding on the built-in functionality, so everything is kind of shoved out there until it works :)

2012-06-14 20:23:38 UTC - jordanbyron - ericgj: Let me take a look

2012-06-14 20:24:25 UTC - locks - for some weird reason I can't seem to uninstall rbx-master

2012-06-14 20:24:29 UTC - locks - this is so confusing

2012-06-14 20:25:45 UTC - jordanbyron - ericgj: One thing you guys might want to do is create a namespace for each person just like you do custom routes

2012-06-14 20:26:11 UTC - jordanbyron - So you would create all your javascript under ericgj for example.

2012-06-14 20:26:41 UTC - jordanbyron - Both in folders and in code. So rafadc is doing part of that with the folders

2012-06-14 20:26:52 UTC - ericgj - you mean file namepace or module namespace ?

2012-06-14 20:27:04 UTC - jordanbyron - But his code is still within the global namespace, so you two could potentially conflict. Let me gist you an example

2012-06-14 20:27:07 UTC - ericgj - yeah we already started doing that informally

2012-06-14 20:27:56 UTC - johnnymuggs - jordanbyron: hmmn, i'm totally new to liquid templates. any leads on filtering the collection of "activities" by date? maybe i'm going about this wrong?

2012-06-14 20:29:00 UTC - ericgj - but the thing is each of these code experiments are one-offs, I can't see us combining them on a single page, maybe that's short-sighted

2012-06-14 20:29:46 UTC - ericgj - so I don't see a need for code namepaces

2012-06-14 20:29:57 UTC - jordanbyron - ericgj: This is what I meant: https://gist.github.com/2932730

2012-06-14 20:30:54 UTC - johnnymuggs - jordanbyron: my suggestion for the RSS feed and calendar links is to put them under the list of updates and activities respectively. I'll try to make it a bit nicer and then do a pull request

2012-06-14 20:30:57 UTC - jordanbyron - johnnymuggs: I haven't used them too much either, but you might want to do an if / else block: http://wiki.shopify.com/UsingLiquid#If_.2F_Else_.2F_Unless

2012-06-14 20:31:05 UTC - ericgj - except it's probably a good practice to get in the habit of doing I suppose

2012-06-14 20:31:34 UTC - jordanbyron - ericgj: Well if you think you're both going to be writing similar code examples, then I would highly recommend it. Just to be on the safe side

2012-06-14 20:31:40 UTC - seacreature - savage-: I missed your question before, going to take a look now

2012-06-14 20:31:50 UTC - johnnymuggs - jordanbyron: ah okay!

2012-06-14 20:31:53 UTC - jordanbyron - Nothing sucks more than spending a couple hours debugging sone js just to find out some other file is stepping on your code

2012-06-14 20:32:04 UTC - ericgj - right

2012-06-14 20:33:13 UTC - ericgj - the main problem I have is the js ecosystem seems exploding in a million directions so it's hard to even get your bearings on 'best practices'

2012-06-14 20:33:46 UTC - seacreature - savage-: yes, you should be afraid of BrokenRecord::Mapping!

2012-06-14 20:33:56 UTC - savage- - seacreature: :-)

2012-06-14 20:34:05 UTC - seacreature - even though it is definited to be about as non-invasive as possible

2012-06-14 20:34:08 UTC - jordanbyron - ericgj: I hear you. And as we've proved today, there are a TON of different ways to accomplish the same outcome, so it's really easy to go down the wrong path

2012-06-14 20:34:15 UTC - seacreature - in Newman we actually don't do things that way

2012-06-14 20:34:35 UTC - seacreature - MyApplication = Newman::Application.new { .... define app here }

2012-06-14 20:34:46 UTC - jordanbyron - ericgj: If you are feeling adventurous you might want to play with Coffeescript. It takes care of a lot of those problems and it tons of fun to work with

2012-06-14 20:34:46 UTC - locks - jordanbyron: just use coffescript, right ;)

2012-06-14 20:34:53 UTC - locks - sync

2012-06-14 20:35:17 UTC - jordanbyron - locks I thought I told you to take the camera out of my office!

2012-06-14 20:35:23 UTC - jordanbyron - creeper

2012-06-14 20:35:45 UTC - seacreature - savage-: this is where my comment to you on Practicing Ruby stems from though: purity of design and a language's cultural tendencies need to be considered together and weighed against one another

2012-06-14 20:35:50 UTC - seacreature - familiarity counts for something

2012-06-14 20:36:21 UTC - ericgj - yeah I like the look of it and it gives me a sense of what's possible in js without the syntax roadbumps

2012-06-14 20:36:23 UTC - savage- - seacreature: yes, interesting indeed. sorry, i'll brb.

2012-06-14 20:36:35 UTC - johnnymuggs - jordanbyron: oh and what are the links to the rss and ical?

2012-06-14 20:36:36 UTC - seacreature - what I can say is that BrokenRecord::Mapping is nearly infinitely less scary than inheriting from ActiveRecord::Base

2012-06-14 20:36:49 UTC - jordanbyron - johnnymuggs: I was wondering when you were going to ask for those ;)

2012-06-14 20:36:57 UTC - ericgj - but feel it would be too much of a crutch to use without knowing a bit more about the underlying language

2012-06-14 20:37:04 UTC - johnnymuggs - jordanbyron: figured i would google a little ;)

2012-06-14 20:37:18 UTC - jordanbyron - RSS should be a relative link: /index.xml

2012-06-14 20:37:29 UTC - seacreature - savage-: also, since it has a very narrow surface which is designed to STAY narrow, it could be completely defined in a document you could read

2012-06-14 20:37:36 UTC - ericgj - I find I learn the most by just reading source code of the libraries I'm using

2012-06-14 20:37:58 UTC - ericgj - for instance I learned a ton just looking at some basic parts of d3

2012-06-14 20:38:03 UTC - locks - ericgj: indeed

2012-06-14 20:38:19 UTC - seacreature - savage-: the interface won't grow with the complexity of the library, same cannot be said with ActiveRecord

2012-06-14 20:38:39 UTC - jordanbyron - johnnymuggs: iCal: https://www.google.com/calendar/ical/rmu.management%40gmail.com/public/basic.ics

2012-06-14 20:38:46 UTC - johnnymuggs - jordanbyron: thanks!

2012-06-14 20:38:50 UTC - jordanbyron - Thank you

2012-06-14 20:39:37 UTC - jordanbyron - ericgj: you can use coffeescript as a tool to help learn javascript. I've learned a bunch by inspecting the generated javascript from my coffeescript files

2012-06-14 20:40:24 UTC - ericgj - that's a good idea

2012-06-14 20:40:30 UTC - locks - jordanbyron: that's a nice way to put "desperately trying to figure out what went wrong" ;)

2012-06-14 20:41:03 UTC - jordanbyron - locks: Not even. Coffeescript does a really good job telling you what you did wrong

2012-06-14 20:41:09 UTC - jordanbyron - At least in my experience it has

2012-06-14 20:41:44 UTC - jordanbyron - I just like to make sure the coffeescript code I wrote is actually what I expected it to be. Because sometimes I make silly mistakes O_o

2012-06-14 20:42:20 UTC - locks - btw, every one needs to try coding with a cursive font sometime

2012-06-14 20:42:57 UTC - seacreature - locks: I think aaron patterson uses papyrus for his terminal / editor

2012-06-14 20:43:00 UTC - seacreature - or he did at one point

2012-06-14 20:43:10 UTC - seacreature - is that true drbrain or am I making things up?

2012-06-14 20:43:13 UTC - zzak - i find coffeescript hard to read

2012-06-14 20:43:30 UTC - locks - http://dotsies.org/ or go full retard, as they say

2012-06-14 20:44:25 UTC - drbrain - seacreature: I think for a day

2012-06-14 20:48:08 UTC - seacreature - hah locks, as silly as dotsies itself might be, the way they try to teach it is pretty clever!

2012-06-14 20:48:14 UTC - seacreature - I saw the site before but didn't see that part

2012-06-14 20:48:23 UTC - locks - it is indeed

2012-06-14 20:48:36 UTC - seacreature - also, I used to try to come up with stuff like that all the time when I was in middle/high school.

2012-06-14 20:49:15 UTC - locks - I had a way of writing leetspeak

2012-06-14 20:49:24 UTC - locks - that for some reason no one understood

2012-06-14 20:49:38 UTC - locks - it boggled my mind, heh

2012-06-14 20:50:37 UTC - locks - still waiting on the rbx install, slow slow network

2012-06-14 20:53:14 UTC - johnnymuggs - yikes, i gotta run!

2012-06-14 20:54:24 UTC - jordanbyron - johnnymuggs: Oh boy! Well thanks for stopping by. Hope to see you again soon and don't forget to email the community list about those interviews

2012-06-14 20:54:55 UTC - seacreature - also johnnymuggs sorry for misreading you! we'd love to help you with your talk however we can

2012-06-14 20:55:36 UTC - johnnymuggs - no worries! thanks for the help

2012-06-14 20:55:45 UTC - johnnymuggs - here's my suggestion for the front page: https://github.com/johnnymugs/mendicantuniversity.org/commit/b0e6465ca091b5bce9662757a4468b745d8c7cc0

2012-06-14 20:55:58 UTC - johnnymuggs - i'd submit a pull request but the ical link is breaking a test i think

2012-06-14 20:56:10 UTC - jordanbyron - That's ok send it over anyway

2012-06-14 20:56:14 UTC - johnnymuggs - ah okay!

2012-06-14 20:56:15 UTC - jordanbyron - Also, tests?

2012-06-14 20:56:25 UTC - jordanbyron - We don't have any stinking tests

2012-06-14 20:56:28 UTC - johnnymuggs - errr i just got a "page build error"

2012-06-14 20:56:42 UTC - johnnymuggs - this jerkyl/liquid stuff is new to me

2012-06-14 20:56:46 UTC - jordanbyron - Ah, well send it over and we can talk about it there

2012-06-14 20:56:55 UTC - johnnymuggs - sure thing!

2012-06-14 20:56:57 UTC - johnnymuggs - thanks ya'll!

2012-06-14 20:57:03 UTC - jordanbyron - Thank you

2012-06-14 20:58:44 UTC - andres-fc - Anybody have strong opinions on API keys and REST auth? A longshot, but worth trying

2012-06-14 20:59:21 UTC - locks - >:|

2012-06-14 21:00:00 UTC - locks - andres-fc: I'm actually unsure on how to proceed with auth for my API

2012-06-14 21:00:04 UTC - locks - it'll eventually need it

2012-06-14 21:00:36 UTC - andres-fc - It's distressing to find so many conflicting opinions on the matter

2012-06-14 21:00:41 UTC - lsone - Railscasts have had some really good episodes on Auth and REST API's lately.

2012-06-14 21:01:35 UTC - seacreature - I wonder to what extent there is legitimate controversy over the topic, and to what extent it's a topic a small group of people are really interested in getting right

2012-06-14 21:02:16 UTC - seacreature - this sort of makes me a big hypocrite because I've been so obsessive with composition lately, which is a similar kind of zealotry :)

2012-06-14 21:02:54 UTC - seacreature - But the point is... it's extremely simple (like, crazily simple) to set up API keys, tie them to accounts, pass them through HTTP basic and authenticate that way

2012-06-14 21:03:08 UTC - locks - ^

2012-06-14 21:03:09 UTC - lsone - After working with Teletrack, a credit reporting company that works under Transunion, I would say that the clients don't really know how to handle the business end of API security at all.

2012-06-14 21:03:11 UTC - seacreature - what are the real costs / disadvantages of doing so that ordinary users will care about?

2012-06-14 21:03:17 UTC - locks - I'm partial to go about it that way

2012-06-14 21:03:44 UTC - locks - put.io makes it really easy to generate API a pair of user+secret tokens

2012-06-14 21:03:57 UTC - locks - that you can use whenever

2012-06-14 21:03:59 UTC - locks - so that's nice

2012-06-14 21:04:20 UTC - lsone - I have a very bad taste in my mouth for how larger companies handle API security right now.

2012-06-14 21:04:23 UTC - locks - andres-fc: what are your qualms? have you done a pro/con of the approaches?

2012-06-14 21:04:47 UTC - locks - lsone: most API

2012-06-14 21:04:56 UTC - locks - developer don't seem to handle security well at all too

2012-06-14 21:05:05 UTC - andres-fc - Well, my use case is giving out API keys for clients to connect to us, not individual users

2012-06-14 21:06:39 UTC - andres-fc - I think I just allowed myself to get sidetracked into "the right way"

2012-06-14 21:07:01 UTC - andres-fc - Whatever that is

2012-06-14 21:07:01 UTC - seacreature - the tricky thing about APIs is that it's very frustrating if you change them or shut them down later

2012-06-14 21:07:26 UTC - seacreature - so there are some good reasons to try to "do it right"

2012-06-14 21:07:47 UTC - seacreature - but I don't think that should be a massive barrier to just getting it done some sort of way first

2012-06-14 21:08:32 UTC - seacreature - it probably depends on what kind of service it is, too

2012-06-14 21:08:49 UTC - andres-fc - I hadn't thought about changes to the API. Hmmmm.

2012-06-14 21:09:43 UTC - seacreature - carols10cents: does steve k's stuff go over auth?

2012-06-14 21:10:29 UTC - seacreature - I have done a fair bit of building little web services for jobs, but they've always been completely internal and were only really built for re-use / modularity

2012-06-14 21:10:35 UTC - ericgj - interesting discussion, sorry i have to leave...

2012-06-14 21:10:38 UTC - ericgj - take care everyone

2012-06-14 21:10:51 UTC - seacreature - so I learned how to build APIs, but not at all about how to build them right :-/

2012-06-14 21:11:07 UTC - andres-fc - Yeah, I'm mostly concerned because this will be consumed externally

2012-06-14 21:11:34 UTC - seacreature - But I suppose it still depends on what the API will be used for.

2012-06-14 21:11:38 UTC - locks - seacreature: I don't think the book talks about auth

2012-06-14 21:11:48 UTC - locks - because HAPI isn't about that

2012-06-14 21:11:54 UTC - locks - let me check

2012-06-14 21:12:07 UTC - locks - yup, nothing on it yet

2012-06-14 21:12:21 UTC - seacreature - yeah, it's sort of a tangental concern

2012-06-14 21:13:14 UTC - locks - http://librelist.com/browser//hypermedia/2012/4/5/authentication-and-links/

2012-06-14 21:13:31 UTC - locks - http://librelist.com/browser//hypermedia/2012/4/25/authorisation-and-roles/

2012-06-14 21:13:47 UTC - andres-fc - I mostly agree with this: http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2009/12/principles-for-standardized-rest-authentication.html

2012-06-14 21:14:20 UTC - andres-fc - However the comments section made me doubt a few things

2012-06-14 21:15:33 UTC - locks - compiling rbx, so computer is going crazy

2012-06-14 21:17:13 UTC - andres-fc - I think I'm just going to go with that for now, unless I have a sudden moment of clarity :p

2012-06-14 21:18:06 UTC - andres-fc - Another thing that has been nagging me lately

2012-06-14 21:19:11 UTC - andres-fc - Is there a good way to deal with multiple resources in REST? For example, creating 100 resources with one action

2012-06-14 21:19:46 UTC - locks - 100 requests :P

2012-06-14 21:20:12 UTC - carols10cents - seacreature: i'm under the impression that hypermedia APIs are pretty agnostic about auth

2012-06-14 21:20:34 UTC - seacreature - yeah, the post locks linked to said something to that effect, which makes sense

2012-06-14 21:21:09 UTC - seacreature - I was just hoping maybe some complete examples might hint at how to solve the problem, because it's orthogonal but very commonly coexisiting :)

2012-06-14 21:21:30 UTC - locks - "use basic auth" ;P

2012-06-14 21:22:07 UTC - seacreature - this conversation has sort of reminded me just how much I don't have experience with this problem

2012-06-14 21:22:38 UTC - seacreature - I remember us talking about what we'd need to do if we needed to expose any of our services publicly, and something along the lines of what you posted andres-fc is what we were going to do

2012-06-14 21:23:01 UTC - seacreature - at the very least, the SSL + dual keys

2012-06-14 21:24:24 UTC - seacreature - signing the query params is not something we talked about, but I guess it makes sense

2012-06-14 21:24:35 UTC - andres-fc - I guess the question is, how much will these solutions clash with proper http/rest, and how much does it really matter in the end

2012-06-14 21:26:02 UTC - seacreature - Well, the most invasive part sounds like the signing aspect

2012-06-14 21:28:49 UTC - andres-fc - locks: I was hoping you wouldn't say that :p

2012-06-14 21:29:16 UTC - seacreature - We should get someone in here to do a study session with us on this topic

2012-06-14 21:29:33 UTC - seacreature - service authentication could be a topic unto itself

2012-06-14 21:29:41 UTC - seacreature - anyone have suggestions for who we could ask?

2012-06-14 21:29:58 UTC - locks - klabnik might point to the right person

2012-06-14 21:30:18 UTC - locks - ask the github guys, maybe?

2012-06-14 21:31:47 UTC - jordanbyron - seacreature: Maybe Brad?

2012-06-14 21:32:00 UTC - carols10cents - ok, escaping. will be on to hack for real in a bit :D

2012-06-14 21:32:08 UTC - seacreature - jordanbyron: oh yeah, possibly so!

2012-06-14 21:32:11 UTC - jordanbyron - See you soon carols10cents

2012-06-14 21:32:19 UTC - jordanbyron - He helped me with CacheCooker

2012-06-14 21:32:23 UTC - seacreature - can you ask him about it?

2012-06-14 21:33:04 UTC - jordanbyron - Sure. Do we want him to come in and talk about it, like your event on mock objects and testing?

2012-06-14 21:33:21 UTC - locks - rubinius-2.0.0dev :004 > {a: 'lol' }

2012-06-14 21:33:21 UTC - locks - rubinius-2.0.0dev :004 > {a: 'lol' }

2012-06-14 21:33:23 UTC - locks - haha

2012-06-14 21:33:42 UTC - jordanbyron - On of those dealios

2012-06-14 21:33:55 UTC - seacreature - jordanbyron: yep, probably in a few weeks

2012-06-14 21:34:01 UTC - seacreature - July sometime

2012-06-14 21:34:26 UTC - jordanbyron - Sounds good. I'll shoot him an email and see if he'd be up for it

2012-06-14 21:34:31 UTC - seacreature - we're starting to get backlogged on study session writeups so I don't want to overburden ourselves w. awesomeness

2012-06-14 21:34:48 UTC - seacreature - I'm trying really hard to make synthesis part of everything we do here

2012-06-14 21:34:56 UTC - seacreature - and hating myself for it, time-wise!

2012-06-14 21:37:57 UTC - andres-fc - Coolbeans :)

2012-06-14 21:38:45 UTC - locks - andres-fc: are you doing "old-school" REST? or hypermedia?

2012-06-14 21:39:23 UTC - alindeman - What is old-school REST?

2012-06-14 21:39:36 UTC - locks - alindeman: rails

2012-06-14 21:39:40 UTC - andres-fc - Not hypermedia, I'm guessing :)

2012-06-14 21:39:43 UTC - locks - and that kind of stuff

2012-06-14 21:39:45 UTC - andres-fc - Yeah, old-school

2012-06-14 21:40:01 UTC - alindeman - locks: So URL and HTTP verb conventions?

2012-06-14 21:40:08 UTC - locks - yeah

2012-06-14 21:40:23 UTC - locks - no HATEAOS

2012-06-14 21:40:37 UTC - locks - *HATEOAS

2012-06-14 21:42:45 UTC - locks - http://timelessrepo.com/haters-gonna-hateoas

2012-06-14 21:45:41 UTC - locks - pruning heroku, this is still online: http://rmu-students-insider.heroku.com/pages/

2012-06-14 21:48:19 UTC - andres-fc - Hah

2012-06-14 21:48:25 UTC - seacreature - it's sort of amazing to think that's from two years ago

2012-06-14 21:48:38 UTC - seacreature - and here we are yet again, with locks talking constantly in IRC :)

2012-06-14 21:48:46 UTC - locks - :(

2012-06-14 21:48:58 UTC - seacreature - I meant that in the most loving of ways!

2012-06-14 21:49:16 UTC - locks - at least I'm talking shop this time

2012-06-14 21:49:38 UTC - locks - APIs are really hard when you want to do them right

2012-06-14 21:49:40 UTC - seacreature - Hah, yeah I was going to point that out :)

2012-06-14 21:50:02 UTC - seacreature - Thanks for sharing this stuff, it's pretty helpful.

2012-06-14 21:51:46 UTC - seacreature - seriously, I am very happy that Mendicant has gone back to its roots and become a more open community

2012-06-14 21:52:31 UTC - seacreature - The conversations have been awesome

2012-06-14 21:55:23 UTC - andres-fc - I was sad I couldn't be here for the mocks/TDD chat, was swamped in work

2012-06-14 21:55:44 UTC - seacreature - lots of good stuff there, I will try to get it written up soon

2012-06-14 21:57:10 UTC - andres-fc - Yeah, I'd love to hear the lessons learned

2012-06-14 22:01:21 UTC - jordanbyron - Sadly I have to get going everyone. I had a lot of fun today!

2012-06-14 22:03:51 UTC - andres-fc - I completely forgot about Steve K's book, seems like I have a lot more reading to do

2012-06-14 22:16:36 UTC - seacreature - if anyone wants to help me out with something, I'm trying to come up with better names for a couple objects in BrokenRecord

2012-06-14 22:16:48 UTC - seacreature - https://github.com/elm-city-craftworks/broken_record/tree/master/lib/broken_record

2012-06-14 22:16:56 UTC - seacreature - right now I have TableMapper and RowMapper

2012-06-14 22:17:16 UTC - seacreature - but I want better names for them

2012-06-14 22:17:50 UTC - seacreature - TableMapper essentially implements an API similar to what ActiveRecord::Base objects have at the class level

2012-06-14 22:17:59 UTC - seacreature - RowMapper does the same at the instance level

2012-06-14 22:23:02 UTC - seacreature - maybe Relation for TableMapper, and Record for RowMapper?

2012-06-14 22:23:11 UTC - seacreature - since that is very loosely what they represent?

2012-06-14 22:29:00 UTC - andres-fc - Sounds much better

2012-06-14 22:30:07 UTC - andres-fc - Although you still have things like 'column_names'

2012-06-14 22:31:22 UTC - andres-fc - Is there anything in the article you're writing that ties the DB to a table implementation?

2012-06-14 22:35:36 UTC - seacreature - I could rename column_names to attributes

2012-06-14 22:35:40 UTC - seacreature - to make it more general

2012-06-14 22:38:59 UTC - seacreature - I mean, the implementation is currently somewhat bound to tables, yes

2012-06-14 22:39:14 UTC - seacreature - but it may be coincidental

2012-06-14 22:45:14 UTC - andres-fc - General names are nicer to look at, but if your implementation needs to actually run and is going to be bound to tables, it might be a bit dissonant and less clear in the end

2012-06-14 22:46:45 UTC - andres-fc - Relation and Record sound good tho

2012-06-14 22:50:26 UTC - seacreature - I don't think attributes is all that dissonent because it doesn't imply some highly abstract concept specific to generalized relations

2012-06-14 22:50:43 UTC - seacreature - attributes is what we call the fields in Ruby, so it fits on that side of the equation

2012-06-14 22:50:53 UTC - andres-fc - Oh yeah, attributes is fine too

2012-06-14 22:51:01 UTC - locks - I was going to say, attributes is a Ruby term so I like that one

2012-06-14 22:52:49 UTC - seacreature - yeah, this looks much nicer now... I have Table (low level SQL interface to tables), FieldSet (formerly row) essentially a simplified struct implementation, Record (a fieldset that gets tied to a particular application model), and Relation (a bridge between Record and Table)

2012-06-14 22:52:55 UTC - seacreature - I'm pretty happy with that

2012-06-14 22:53:03 UTC - seacreature - having Row and Record was too confusing

2012-06-14 22:54:27 UTC - carols10cents - feel the rhythm, feel the rhyme, get on up, it's hacking time!

2012-06-14 22:54:57 UTC - carols10cents - ahh, it's my favorite part of the day, cd rstat.us

2012-06-14 22:55:13 UTC - carols10cents - how's it going with rbx+rstat.us, locks?

2012-06-14 22:56:32 UTC - locks - bundle install failed miserably

2012-06-14 22:56:35 UTC - carols10cents - :(

2012-06-14 22:56:41 UTC - locks - got sidetracked meanwhile, since you weren't around

2012-06-14 22:56:50 UTC - carols10cents - that's ok :D

2012-06-14 22:56:55 UTC - locks - Installing libxml-ruby (2.1.2) with native extensions

2012-06-14 22:56:55 UTC - locks - Installing libxml-ruby (2.1.2) with native extensions

2012-06-14 22:57:16 UTC - carols10cents - eeeeeenteresting

2012-06-14 22:57:28 UTC - locks - I get so many "Invalid gemspec in X" with rbx2.0dev

2012-06-14 22:58:00 UTC - carols10cents - locks: https://github.com/jnunemaker/twitter/commit/5ecb5c8715b2c9059659fb3424d23d523da5f6f8

2012-06-14 22:58:08 UTC - locks - https://gist.github.com/17efa244259e510cfae8

2012-06-14 22:58:17 UTC - locks - roger that

2012-06-14 22:58:36 UTC - locks - nokogiri is much better anyway :)

2012-06-14 22:58:45 UTC - carols10cents - yeah

2012-06-14 22:58:50 UTC - carols10cents - it's in the ratom gem

2012-06-14 22:58:52 UTC - locks - hm, let me find the docs for conditional loading in the Gemfile

2012-06-14 22:59:20 UTC - locks - oh you guys are using ratom? I was looking for an atom lib, and thinking about rAtom

2012-06-14 22:59:44 UTC - carols10cents - i've worked with the maintainer to get rspec updated, working on 1.9 w/o deprecation warnings, up on travis etc

2012-06-14 22:59:49 UTC - carols10cents - and he's nice

2012-06-14 23:00:19 UTC - carols10cents - yeah the ostatus gems use it

2012-06-14 23:01:37 UTC - carols10cents - soooo i dont know what to do at this point

2012-06-14 23:02:03 UTC - carols10cents - we could open an issue with ratom to see if switching to nokogiri is a possibility

2012-06-14 23:02:12 UTC - carols10cents - on the other hand, this isnt the most urgent thing ever

2012-06-14 23:02:34 UTC - carols10cents - so i'd be ok with closing the rbx compatibility with 'depends on libxml-ruby which doesnt work with rbx'

2012-06-14 23:02:52 UTC - locks - because of the c extension or something?

2012-06-14 23:02:59 UTC - carols10cents - i have no idea

2012-06-14 23:03:17 UTC - carols10cents - that's the other avenue, see why libxml-ruby doesnt work with rbx and if there's anything that can be done

2012-06-14 23:03:27 UTC - carols10cents - but that's getting out of my league

2012-06-14 23:05:08 UTC - locks - talk about yaks

2012-06-14 23:05:46 UTC - carols10cents - yeah really

2012-06-14 23:09:49 UTC - locks - ACTION sees a parslet somewhere and cheers

2012-06-14 23:10:00 UTC - locks - carols10cents: I thought rstatus had moved off of sinatra?

2012-06-14 23:10:08 UTC - carols10cents - locks: we have?

2012-06-14 23:10:16 UTC - carols10cents - what makes you think we havent?

2012-06-14 23:10:21 UTC - locks - oh nevermind

2012-06-14 23:10:25 UTC - locks - I got confused

2012-06-14 23:10:30 UTC - carols10cents - what

2012-06-14 23:10:33 UTC - locks - there's a warning

2012-06-14 23:10:43 UTC - locks - but it's not from the rstatus gemset, it's from the global one

2012-06-14 23:10:49 UTC - carols10cents - aaahhhhhh.

2012-06-14 23:10:55 UTC - locks - mybad

2012-06-14 23:11:20 UTC - carols10cents - i actually did a talk on beginning sinatra at pittsburgh ruby last week, and pointed out that rstat.us USED to be

2012-06-14 23:11:31 UTC - carols10cents - was wondering if you were watching the video or something

2012-06-14 23:11:36 UTC - locks - haha

2012-06-14 23:11:50 UTC - locks - sinatra is great

2012-06-14 23:12:00 UTC - locks - so, I may just found a bug on rbx

2012-06-14 23:12:03 UTC - carols10cents - oooo

2012-06-14 23:17:07 UTC - carols10cents - check it out, rstat.us has spammers!!!! http://rstat.us/users/Mats4Floor

2012-06-14 23:17:12 UTC - carols10cents - we've made the big time!!!

2012-06-14 23:17:38 UTC - locks - rstatus needs a good client

2012-06-14 23:17:43 UTC - locks - I keep forgetting about it :x

2012-06-14 23:17:48 UTC - carols10cents - well

2012-06-14 23:17:52 UTC - carols10cents - want to write one?

2012-06-14 23:17:54 UTC - carols10cents - ;)

2012-06-14 23:18:03 UTC - carols10cents - i'm making you a nice HAPI....

2012-06-14 23:18:26 UTC - locks - should be easy enough with ALPS :P

2012-06-14 23:18:36 UTC - locks - I might, with macruby

2012-06-14 23:18:40 UTC - carols10cents - \o/

2012-06-14 23:18:55 UTC - seacreature - okay, now that I managed to get 10 minutes of yak shaving... err... work done

2012-06-14 23:19:00 UTC - seacreature - I am tired an need a break

2012-06-14 23:19:15 UTC - locks - carols10cents: rbx is indeed broken, I think brixen is on the case

2012-06-14 23:19:18 UTC - seacreature - back within an hour or so.

2012-06-14 23:19:28 UTC - carols10cents - locks: cool!

2012-06-14 23:25:43 UTC - locks - so, not sure what now :P

2012-06-14 23:28:03 UTC - carols10cents - could you make an update on the rbx support bug indicating what's broken and where we can see status on it being fixed in rbx?

2012-06-14 23:35:22 UTC - locks - carols10cents: I'm building a rubinius with the fix

2012-06-14 23:35:26 UTC - locks - to see if I can get further along

2012-06-14 23:36:25 UTC - carols10cents - locks: awesome

2012-06-14 23:37:37 UTC - seacreature - oh, fuck this so hard: http://blogs.skype.com/en/2012/06/skype_advertising_update.html

2012-06-14 23:38:30 UTC - locks - they're trying really hard to drive off users

2012-06-14 23:39:00 UTC - seacreature - carols10cents, semmons99 and others I meet with on skype occasionally, I guess we'll need to find some other way :-/

2012-06-14 23:39:16 UTC - carols10cents - seacreature: what have i been telling yoooouuu

2012-06-14 23:39:38 UTC - drbrain - facetime!

2012-06-14 23:39:45 UTC - locks - seacreature: have you tried google hangouts?

2012-06-14 23:40:20 UTC - seacreature - locks: I have very strong aversions to turning on yet another social network

2012-06-14 23:41:32 UTC - locks - oh, you need G+ to use it? my bad

2012-06-14 23:41:41 UTC - carols10cents - ok has anyone tried: http://www.qutecom.org/

2012-06-14 23:41:55 UTC - seacreature - and it doesn't seem like much of an alternative to me... go away from one company's ridiculous use of advertisement to encourage another to do the same thing but in a different way?

2012-06-14 23:42:44 UTC - carols10cents - or http://www.gnutelephony.org/index.php/GNU_Telephony

2012-06-14 23:43:08 UTC - carols10cents - or http://www.ekiga.org/

2012-06-14 23:43:23 UTC - seacreature - I'm installing it.

2012-06-14 23:43:26 UTC - seacreature - qutecom

2012-06-14 23:43:35 UTC - seacreature - gnu telephony confused the shit out of me

2012-06-14 23:43:49 UTC - seacreature - does it actually have an app, or just tools?

2012-06-14 23:44:28 UTC - carols10cents - or http://icanblink.com/

2012-06-14 23:44:39 UTC - carols10cents - or http://sylkserver.com/

2012-06-14 23:44:48 UTC - locks - or chatroullette+refresh

2012-06-14 23:44:51 UTC - carols10cents - uhh

2012-06-14 23:44:56 UTC - locks - O:)

2012-06-14 23:45:37 UTC - carols10cents - or https://jitsi.org/

2012-06-14 23:45:55 UTC - seacreature - qutecom seems like it needs a VOIP provider

2012-06-14 23:46:58 UTC - seacreature - i don't even know how to do that :)

2012-06-14 23:48:31 UTC - carols10cents - https://www.linphone.org/eng/download/packages/

2012-06-14 23:49:02 UTC - carols10cents - seacreature: fix itttt

2012-06-14 23:49:22 UTC - seacreature - https://www.ekiga.net/?page=register

2012-06-14 23:52:02 UTC - locks - http://timelessrepo.com/haters-gonna-hateoas shakes head at the Content Negotiation bit

2012-06-14 23:52:05 UTC - seacreature - awesome: "Your password is: .... "

2012-06-14 23:52:25 UTC - seacreature - thanks for storing it the clear, buddies!

2012-06-14 23:54:36 UTC - carols10cents - :(

2012-06-14 23:55:43 UTC - locks - can I rvm install a ruby from a local source?

2012-06-15 00:00:06 UTC - seacreature - trying to download jitsi now

2012-06-15 00:01:49 UTC - carols10cents - locks: i dont see anything in the rvm installing docs

2012-06-15 00:02:58 UTC - seacreature - carols10cents: can you try using jitsi with me over gmail?

2012-06-15 00:03:02 UTC - seacreature - err google talk

2012-06-15 00:03:42 UTC - carols10cents - seacreature: i should install jitsi too? or just sign into gmail?

2012-06-15 00:03:57 UTC - ptn777 - but doesn't gtalk have native voice and video now?

2012-06-15 00:04:34 UTC - seacreature - ptn777: it does, but I don't want to log into my gmail account when I don't have to, and I don't want to install a google-based client on my machine

2012-06-15 00:04:50 UTC - seacreature - My goal will be to not use google at all in the end, but some other XMPP provider

2012-06-15 00:05:03 UTC - seacreature - carols10cents: looks like it'll work with you just signing into gmail, let's try that

2012-06-15 00:05:59 UTC - ptn777 - I have been searching for an alternative to gmail

2012-06-15 00:12:16 UTC - seacreature - carols10cents: http://i.imgur.com/EWs31.jpg

2012-06-15 00:13:13 UTC - locks - nice quality

2012-06-15 00:16:47 UTC - locks - carols10cents: heading to bed, it's getting late

2012-06-15 00:17:14 UTC - locks - but I think I'll try trudging onwards another day

2012-06-15 00:18:09 UTC - carols10cents - seacreature: call failed

2012-06-15 00:18:37 UTC - seacreature - what do you get, one try with this thing?\

2012-06-15 00:18:43 UTC - carols10cents - ya lol

2012-06-15 00:18:47 UTC - carols10cents - one try at each feature

2012-06-15 00:18:49 UTC - carols10cents - one toggle

2012-06-15 00:18:53 UTC - seacreature - trying to reboot the app

2012-06-15 00:18:55 UTC - carols10cents - that's t

2012-06-15 00:19:17 UTC - seacreature - stores all state in a single global variable that gets overwritten each time you click on something

2012-06-15 00:19:35 UTC - carols10cents - lol i cant get it to quit

2012-06-15 00:20:08 UTC - carols10cents - i love the vintage phone dialing noises tho

2012-06-15 00:20:21 UTC - seacreature - oh yeah, that's exciting

2012-06-15 00:20:34 UTC - seacreature - so this is probably too buggy :-/

2012-06-15 00:20:37 UTC - carols10cents - ok i think i've restarted

2012-06-15 00:21:10 UTC - carols10cents - yeah probably

2012-06-15 00:22:21 UTC - seacreature - maybe we can try facetime as drbrain suggested

2012-06-15 00:22:23 UTC - seacreature - I've never used it

2012-06-15 00:22:32 UTC - drbrain - or ichatav

2012-06-15 00:24:02 UTC - seacreature - carols10cents: want to try facetime? I didn't even realize it was installed on my mac

2012-06-15 00:24:24 UTC - carols10cents - seacreature: is that a lion thing? i'm still on snow leopard

2012-06-15 00:24:29 UTC - seacreature - me too

2012-06-15 00:24:55 UTC - seacreature - it should already be on your computer

2012-06-15 00:25:01 UTC - drbrain - I think FaceTime is on 10.6 too

2012-06-15 00:25:04 UTC - carols10cents - facetimemigrator?

2012-06-15 00:25:14 UTC - seacreature - umm... just facetime

2012-06-15 00:25:17 UTC - drbrain - (there's also iChat AV)

2012-06-15 00:25:22 UTC - carols10cents - that's all i'm seeing in spotlight

2012-06-15 00:26:11 UTC - seacreature - oh yeah, I suppose we can try ichat + gmail

2012-06-15 00:26:14 UTC - carols10cents - downloading

2012-06-15 00:26:30 UTC - carols10cents - $0.99

2012-06-15 00:26:35 UTC - carols10cents - that's not free :P

2012-06-15 00:27:07 UTC - seacreature - I'm trying to call you from ichat

2012-06-15 00:27:21 UTC - carols10cents - starting

2012-06-15 00:27:32 UTC - seacreature - hmmm.. error there too

2012-06-15 00:27:39 UTC - carols10cents - spin spin spin

2012-06-15 00:27:39 UTC - seacreature - I think google is not liking us

2012-06-15 00:28:18 UTC - seacreature - did you pay the $0.99 for facetime?

2012-06-15 00:28:30 UTC - seacreature - i am not sure why I have it and you don't

2012-06-15 00:28:37 UTC - seacreature - I definitely didn't install it

2012-06-15 00:28:53 UTC - drbrain - seacreature: maybe you installed the beta?

2012-06-15 00:29:02 UTC - seacreature - drbrain: I've never opened the software

2012-06-15 00:29:27 UTC - seacreature - maybe it came with iWork or something like that

2012-06-15 00:30:23 UTC - seacreature - carols10cents: i'm just trying to try out face time because it's one more protocol

2012-06-15 00:30:44 UTC - seacreature - if google is giving us server side problems, ichat av won't work for us :-/

2012-06-15 00:30:51 UTC - drbrain - seacreature: looks like you must purchase it on Snow Leopard, but it comes with Lion

2012-06-15 00:31:43 UTC - seacreature - drbrain: so I got lucky and it was magically on my machine?

2012-06-15 00:32:11 UTC - drbrain - seacreature: you have Lion? yes, allegedly due to Sarbanes-Oxley

2012-06-15 00:32:34 UTC - seacreature - hah, I'm pretty sure i don't have lion :)

2012-06-15 00:32:50 UTC - seacreature - Diablo III did make me upgrade to the latest snow leopard though

2012-06-15 00:33:17 UTC - drbrain - the only other option is that you installed the beta and forgot

2012-06-15 00:34:06 UTC - seacreature - it's version 1.0.2

2012-06-15 00:34:31 UTC - seacreature - when I opened it, it made me set it up

2012-06-15 00:34:40 UTC - seacreature - and I don't even have the mac app store set up on my machine

2012-06-15 00:34:44 UTC - seacreature - so I'm sure I didn't buy it :)

2012-06-15 00:36:02 UTC - carols10cents - seacreature: sorry my mom called on the real phone

2012-06-15 00:36:13 UTC - seacreature - no problem

2012-06-15 00:36:19 UTC - carols10cents - should i try facetime?

2012-06-15 00:36:21 UTC - seacreature - yeah

2012-06-15 00:36:27 UTC - carols10cents - ok hold plz

2012-06-15 00:36:47 UTC - seacreature - it's most likely the case that it was somehow installed when I bought the laptop, but it doesn't ship on the OS disks

2012-06-15 00:37:04 UTC - seacreature - aha! "FaceTime is included on any Mac that has a built in FaceTIme HD camera, regardless of what version of OS X it was shipped with."

2012-06-15 00:38:33 UTC - seacreature - carols10cents: my apple ID is gregory.t.brown@gmail.com

2012-06-15 00:40:24 UTC - savage- - womble: does your patch ensure that you don't have two different clients writing to two different masters? do you auto-promote a slave to a master?

2012-06-15 00:40:32 UTC - savage- - crap

2012-06-15 00:40:34 UTC - savage- - sorry guys, wrong channel.

2012-06-15 00:40:49 UTC - alindeman - I'm curious; what are you talking about savage- ?

2012-06-15 00:41:01 UTC - carols10cents - seacreature: mine is carol.nichols@gmail.com

2012-06-15 00:41:10 UTC - carols10cents - i've got it installed and added you to my contacts

2012-06-15 00:41:16 UTC - carols10cents - but i dont see any "call"

2012-06-15 00:41:33 UTC - seacreature - Unrelated, I forgot I installed F.lux and momentarily thought I was going colorblind

2012-06-15 00:41:45 UTC - seacreature - it's gradually changing the colors of everything on my screen

2012-06-15 00:42:22 UTC - savage- - alindeman: hey! oh, I was just talking about redis_failover with someone on #redis (https://github.com/ryanlecompte/redis_failover)

2012-06-15 00:42:39 UTC - alindeman - Cool :) I was just wondering as it sounded like an interesting problem

2012-06-15 00:42:59 UTC - savage- - alindeman: yeah, this stuff is fun :)

2012-06-15 00:43:12 UTC - savage- - alindeman: it's a nice change from html/css/js :)

2012-06-15 01:04:39 UTC - seacreature - carols10cents: I may have managed to get a jabber server up, no idea what it is capable of doing

2012-06-15 01:06:07 UTC - carols10cents - lol

2012-06-15 01:06:24 UTC - carols10cents - it is capable of taking over the world

2012-06-15 01:08:03 UTC - seacreature - PMed you account details

2012-06-15 01:28:37 UTC - seacreature - at least that felt like using AOL 3.0

2012-06-15 01:28:39 UTC - carols10cents - ok i have had enough

2012-06-15 01:28:42 UTC - carols10cents - yeah

2012-06-15 01:29:09 UTC - carols10cents - found the 'away message' section and had a flashback to the hours i spent crafting witty and cryptic away messages

2012-06-15 01:29:13 UTC - seacreature - so face time, until we get our own proper Jabber system set up

2012-06-15 01:29:29 UTC - seacreature - AOL thought of twitter a LONG time ago

2012-06-15 01:29:30 UTC - seacreature - :)

2012-06-15 01:30:43 UTC - carols10cents - haha. ok, i have had enough hackfest.

2012-06-15 01:30:57 UTC - carols10cents - it was fun though :D bye everyone!!!

2012-06-15 01:50:32 UTC - seacreature - carols10cents got tired of the hackfest because it turned into installing a bunch of random jabber clients

2012-06-15 01:50:40 UTC - seacreature - this is what happens on the late shift of the hack night

2012-06-15 01:50:50 UTC - seacreature - anyone else being more productive than us? :-P